Calling All Bloggers - A challange
Rarely do I venture over to sites where I have in the past felt that the blogs had a somewhat negative spirit to them. But, every once in a while someone will mention that a particular post is running on one of them that I have an interest in, so a couple of clicks later and there I am, reading stuff I can barely believe people have the nerve to write.
Of course, they almost never have peoples’ real names signed at the bottom, something which I require on my own site; however, this isn’t truly what gets me going. What I just do not understand is that, knowing that all they would have to do is simply go to DoversWorld.com and click on “Questions and Comments” and ask me directly something like for instance, ” Exactly what does the FEI Dressage Task Force hope to achieve with the up-coming Dressage Judging Systems Trials being held September 7-9 in Aachen?” Instead, “herd members” place their theories, most of them without much fact to back them up, as to exactly what will take place and the probable results.
So here is my challange to all those “nerds”, Ultimate or Chrono. Ask me anything and I promise to give you an honestg answer, whether you like it or not. If I can help peop-le to understand better any issues they are unclear on about this or anything else I have knowledge of (and it’s not so much- believe me!), I will do my best to help.
Cheers!
RD
Jane Savoie — August 30, 2009 @ 6:44 pm
Robert,
Did you post your challenge on those BB’s? They might not see it here.
Sandra McGuire — September 1, 2009 @ 8:02 am
Robert,
Thank you for giving your time and rather than simply expressing dissatisfaction with a situation (cranky people who like to engage their mouths before their brains), you offer an alternative with your site. The best teachers lead by example. Thank you for politely showing stray bloggers the way. Any future articles in USDF Connections mentioning your site and offer?
Rebecca Pennington — September 1, 2009 @ 4:00 pm
RD, would you like me to post your challenge on the COTH and UDBB for you? Or at least a link to this site?
Rebecca Pennington — September 1, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
Just got your email. Done.
*star* — September 2, 2009 @ 10:13 am
As one of the leaders of the ‘Nerd Herd’, I’ll bite:
-what is the specific ‘judging trial’ methodology proposed by the FEI? As in: what are the specific questions to be answered, what is the specific scoring methodology that will be tried against these questions, what is the specific performance criteria against which the success or failure of the trials will be judged?
-why has the FEI Dressage Task Force not published this information in advance (transparency)?
-who are the statistical experts (nerds) who are assisting in this process? What are their qualifications in process management / process improvement theory and practice?
-what timeline is the FEI Dressage Task Force working against for publishing the results of these trials?
-have any of the members of the FEI Dressage Task Force read the papers / analysis done by the Nerd Herd?
-Do any of the members of the FEI Dressage Task Force have any experience in statistical analysis of complex performance systems?
*star*
aka
Mary S Johnston
Woodstock, Maryland
RR — September 2, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
Hi Mary.
I hope you received my E-mail from earlier today and please feel free to post my reply on any and all blogs you wish. I sent you the press release from the FEI which they sent out on behalf of the Dressage Task Force a while back regarding next week’s Judging Systems Trials. It explained and outlined the various trials which will be tried out. David Strickland and Wayne Channon, both statisticians or “nerds” as you coined the term, have been an important part of our process and will be on hand to help analyse the results.
I hope that everyone understands that we are doing the very best we can to, in an open, friendly atmosphere, conduct the trials knowing that it might take several days from the time the riders complete their test for us to understand all of the ramifications of the different processes and scoring methods. Still, we have great hopes that the outcome of the DJST will be a modernized system which the world will be proud of, understand better, and feel is more fair to all.
Cheers!
RD
*star* — September 3, 2009 @ 8:12 am
Thank you for the information on the test plan. There are some interesting elements in there that are a starting point for analysis, but …..
I would like to see evidence of planning for additional testing — one run on a small data set will not produce sufficient information for any level of reliability.
I would like to know which analysis methods will be used on the data sets.
I would like to see a clear(er) statement of the goals: what is it the Task Force thinks is wrong, what changes are they looking to make, how do they think these changes are likely to meet the goals?
Also, where is this published on the FEI website? I have looked at the site periodically and run searches for the information and not found it.
*star*
Mary S Johnston
Woodstock, MD
Elaine Lindelef — September 3, 2009 @ 9:47 am
Star was kind enough to post the email you sent her to other BBs, where I read it.
As I understand it, the goal is to compare two proposed variations in judging: one, to compare variations in the number of judges around the ring, and two, to use half points. Is that correct?
What is your criteria for choosing the “best” system? Are you looking for the one that shows the least variation between judges? The one that is best correlated to some reference set of expert judges? The one that shows the most spread in numerical scores between rides?
Elaine Lindelef — September 3, 2009 @ 9:55 am
If this is not already in the plans, I would strongly suggest setting up video at each judge location. This would give you the option to get more judging data for the same rides, and it would also be valuable for the analysis when there are cases where judges are giving significantly different scores.
RDover2 — September 3, 2009 @ 10:08 am
Hi Elaine.
We will be conducting 6 different trials which are explained in the FEI article. We are also using, for the first time ever,oversight by a “Judges Supervisory Panel”. We will also be using technology such as instant replay and new computer models to test various theories. I will post daily blogs each night on Dover’s World to keep my friends abreast of all that took place each day and asmany conclusions as we are able to come to as we are going along.
All the best!
RD
Elaine Lindelef — September 3, 2009 @ 11:48 am
Thank you, Robert.
Can you provide a link to the FEI article that you are referring to? I am not certain that I have been reading the same article that you are thinking of.
What are the criteria that will be used to judge whether one system of judging is better than another?
Betsy Mercer — September 3, 2009 @ 2:32 pm
Thank you for participating in this important work. I look forward to updates!
Betsy Mercer
aka Piaffe at X
RDover2 — September 3, 2009 @ 3:44 pm
Hi Elaine.
Here is what the FEI put out.
PGRAM
- JUDGING SYSTEMS TRIAL IN AACHEN 7-9 SEPTEMBER 2009
Spectators are welcome, and a member of the Task Force will give an update of the systems to be tested just before the start of the first test, and during the trial. However, no information will be given about scores and results, and throughout the whole trial, horses will have numbers instead of names, to make the test completely objective.
Exact timings cannot be decided until the actual day, as the actual number of horses participating may change up to the last moment
7 SEPTEMBER
12.30 A member of the Task Force will give an update to the spectators.
1. Two tests running at the same time:
a. 7 judges judging, Grand Prix test positions E,H,C,M,B + both sides of A), otherwise today’s system (using scale 0-10, giving marks for all movements and collective marks).
This will let us test:
a. 5 judges as today for reference (by selecting the results of E,H,C,M,B judges)
b. 7 judges all counting
c. 7 judges, 5 counting, removing highest and lowest score (final score)
b. 4 judges judging, judging various elements of training scale
This will let us test:
a. How the training scale may be directly related to the marks and results of a test, and the differences in results to today’s system
2. Giving half marks 5 judges judging, Grand Prix test, positions E,H,C,M,B, (using scale 0-10, giving marks for all movements and collective marks), and 5 judges judging as today’s system
This will let us test:
a. How often do the judges give half marks?
b. Are the scores higher or lower?
c. How is the distribution? More 6.5 instead of 6, more 7.5 instead of 8?
Evening:
- Video session – open ending – practical judging from video, dividing tasks in Freestyle. 5 judges giving technical marks from the front (other angles cannot be evaluated from a video), 5 judges judging artistic marks. Testing a new system for degree of difficulty based on a mathematic formula
08 SEPTEMBER
3. Dividing of tasks, standard tests (Grand Prix test)
The individual trials will be studied by members of the Dressage Task Force, those judges taking part in the trials, the Supervisory Panel, outside statisticians, and FEI staff. I will do my best to post blogs from Aachen daily to keep readers informed as to how things are progressing.
Cheers!
RD
Whisper — September 6, 2009 @ 10:13 am
Most shows will not be able to afford 7 judges per arena. Is the FEI planning to actually use either the scores of all 7 judges (or 5 with highest and lowest scores dropped), or are they using it to see how scores vary based on judge position?
RDover2 — September 6, 2009 @ 11:18 am
Hi Whisper. The use of 7 judges is one method which is being tried with respect to major championships where there are already at least that number of judges on hand.
Best wishes.
RD
Doug Ocallahan — December 4, 2011 @ 5:08 pm
I simply couldn’t depart your web site before suggesting that I really enjoyed the standard information a person provide on your guests? Is gonna be back steadily in order to check up on new posts
social media marketing with facebook — January 3, 2012 @ 5:42 pm
So Mr. Orly, youre the guy whos name appears blank on the list. Apparently there are a number of you who actually forget to write their names.
Brooks Cockroft — January 5, 2012 @ 2:11 am
Nice blog! Only problem is i’m running Firefox on Debian, and the site is looking a little.. weird! Perhaps you may want to test it to see for yourself.
Accident Attorney Lancaster — February 20, 2012 @ 8:53 am
It’s arduous to seek out knowledgeable people on this topic, however you sound like you recognize what you’re talking about! Thanks
book self publishing — March 30, 2012 @ 3:43 am
Our becoming pregnant plan is simple, safe and is an organic and natural way of getting pregnant that is definitely extremely easy to follow! 2 month guarantee to get pregnant fast naturally. No harmful costly fertility drugs or supplements necessary.
gamefly review 2011 — April 1, 2012 @ 8:21 am
I’d should check with you here. Which isn’t something I normally do! I get pleasure from reading a publish that can make folks think. Additionally, thanks for allowing me to remark!
drzwi invado — April 16, 2012 @ 8:36 pm
I think what you posted was very reasonable. However, think about this, suppose you were to write a killer headline? I am not suggesting your information is not solid, however suppose you added something to possibly grab a person’s attention? I mean Dover’s World » Calling All Bloggers - A challange is kinda vanilla. You should glance at Yahoo’s front page and see how they create news titles to grab people to click. You might try adding a video or a pic or two to grab people interested about what you’ve written. Just my opinion, it could make your posts a little bit more interesting.