So That’s What I’m Talkin About!
See, I told you so. All I had to do was mention the word, ” Rollkur” and sure enough, the posts start streaming in! But here’s the thing - I already mentioned that we’ve been around that track before and so this topic, while not off limits, is surely not going to win that reader an award for coming up with something new and fresh to talk about. Still, regarding Patrick, I already put the official statement from the FEI on my site so scroll back and you will see that it has not just been swept under the rug. OK?
To the reader who has so kindly written in about why she is timid to write, I sort of figured that one out on my own, but I am really happy you got up the nerve to write twice! Your second question is about trainer certification, I presume, and there are very successful models used already in several European countries which would work well enough in North America as well. The problem has always been that of fear by many in trusting that the few will be able to do a great job of carrying out such an institution with a high degree of professionalism and ethics. Here is the best barometer for selecting a trainer. Look at their show record of horses and riders they have trained and competed with. If they have repeatedly come out with beautiful and world-class results, they are good enough. One top horse may just be a fluke as may one top rider. Longevity of the kind that Jessica Ransehousen, Guenter Seidel, Steffen Peters, Ashley Holzer, and Debbie McDonald have is proof of their ability at the highest level. At lower levels, great instructors are the ones whose students keep being funneled upward into the higher levels and exemplify beautiful seats and extremely correct horses which are both complimented when seen by those top trainers I mentioned before.
So, now that I’ve said all that, not to be disrespectful, but I’m looking for posts that are way more fun and provocative, and remember, they don’t always have to be about Dressage or so serious.
There is life beyond horses, ya know! 
Cheers!
RD
Savannah Brentnall — October 30, 2009 @ 3:42 pm
Sorry I wasn’t clearer in my last post. I didn’t really want to discuss rollkur–I’m more interested in discussing why riders will pick apart a possible problem for hours afterwards amongst themselves, but no one says anything when they’re actually standing beside a warmup ring watching. We say we’re all about the love of the horse, but how many of us have the guts to actually back that sentiment up with action?
Btw, I looked all the way back to August to see the FEI statement about Kissel, but I couldn’t see anything. COuld you possibly post a link? I’d love to read what they have to say. Thanks!
Liz — October 30, 2009 @ 5:31 pm
So, I’d really like to know what your mask for Saturday’s party looks like. I was once in France during a craft show and one of the artists had the most gorgeous masks, made with feathers and silk and rhinestones, so beautiful. I really wanted to get one, but then I thought, where would I ever wear it? And they were meant to be worn, not hung on the wall! Anyways, hope you have a great time.
Niki Rabier — October 30, 2009 @ 5:42 pm
Sorry this “Rolkur” thing lasts onto the second day!
It only needs common sense to judge “Patrik Kittel’s handling of his stallion in the crowded intense arena”: If he needed to “handle” his reactive horse in such a severe way, the horse is NOT suitable to show in the public. Kittel’s judgment is in question.
Aids, no matter how severe, need to be quickly released. His riding ethics and capability are again in question.
Even giving such impression to bystanders is his failure in itself.
What you see is what you get, no need to do any more understanding.
I have a day job as a medical professional. There is no need to be a roket scientist to realize things are wrong, just use common sense.
I would like to comfort some of you is that the animals will win in the long run. When a rider tries to control his mount with his own physical force instead of diplomacy with the horse, the human will loose by getting back & hip injuries, arthritis, mental depression, …to name a few.
robert Dover — October 30, 2009 @ 6:34 pm
Sorry,Liz, no masks this time around. It will be fun though. Hope to see you there!
lita dove — October 30, 2009 @ 10:08 pm
SO You Think You Can Dance is a wonderful show: subjective judges, personalities in their own right; young athlete-dancers, full of fire, ambition and soul, brimming with talent and passion.
WHY CAN’T WE DO THIS with dressage???
The horses are brimming with talent and generosity and awesome power; the best riders are worthy partners and give chills with their demonstration of being able to talk to alien beings and dance together…
Sure it is not the same: but I watch SYTYCD and think about dressage: about the need for choreography, the need to figure out what one excels at and work on the other parts as well; the need to stay in the zone mentally; the need to be fit, to always strive to be better; the need to not get hurt.
I watch PBR Now (Professional Bull Riding) and dream of dressage ever approaching this kind of popularity: where the knowledgeable audience votes on the best BULL as well as the best rider and performance; (and yes, they argue with the judge scores as well, a comforting feeling, LOL); where the element of danger offsets the zaniness of watching someone try to stay on for the magic 8 seconds.
I try to think how to respect and love the sport of dressage and yet not lose sight of the fact that an audience has to feel it understands the sport easily enough to provide enjoyment, not just be told all the time what is/is not correct.
Marci Brown — October 30, 2009 @ 11:03 pm
Why can’t we do it ???!!!! That is a great idea. In this day and age of internet technology ! Contestants can be all over place, and submit video footage online… on youtube even ! We can have judges cut one horse/person each week… local trainers and coaches can work with the riders and gain publicity!
It would be very easy to set up ! And as interest grows, so does the interest in our sport.
Lets DO IT !
Sandra McGuire — October 31, 2009 @ 12:35 am
I keep thinking of the Shaq Vs. show. This past summer, Shaq took on Michael Phelps. Why not take on our favorite Olympian, Robert Dover?
I’m in the Cavs fan area, and the new controversy is if the county sheriff should deputize Shaquille O’Neil or not. I think this is an opportunity for the dressage community. What about the dressage community adopting him and giving him the skills to be a mounted police officer? The only catch… well, ok, so there are too many to list… but the biggest is how to find a horse that is able to carry a 7′1, 325 lb. man. Breaches and tall boots might be another challenge.
Marci Brown — October 31, 2009 @ 2:00 pm
For the past few years I have run a summer dressage schooling circuit here. My intent has always been to promote our sport, and let other equestrians know that it can be fun, and for everyone ! I think I have achieved my initial goals, and we are well on our way. I wanted it to be a safe place for riders of other disciplines to come out with young horses and get them in the ring. Also, I wanted parents of lesson kids to get them out to the shows on a budget, so we waived “dressage” attire and allowed breeches , belts and golf shirts to be worn… with an added incentive awarded to best dressed in traditional gear.
So, we have the attendence, the attention of the grass roots riders, students, etc. Now.. next season I want to focus on FUN !!! I need ideas ! My thoughts so far are, that our North American shows are so QUIET ! In Europe, dressage horses are exposed to rukus ! Here in Canada at the reining horse shows they hoot and holler also…. What can I do ? FUN music in the warm up ring ? Freestyle classes at ever show ( we just do one big freestyle show)more costumes in freestyles ? Should I stagger entry times so people hang around longer ? Offer Free Food ? More Prizes ? Demos from other horse sports ? What will make it fun , draw crowds and have businesses keen to sponsor dressage ?
Sandra Wardell — October 31, 2009 @ 8:02 pm
Hi Marci - if you are trying to draw a crowd, possibly have someone make up a large sign that could be taken to every show. Similar to Eastwood where they put up a sign day of the show so anyone driving by could see it. Also, maybe post it ahead of time prior to each show, some attractive looking poster or on the radio. The food booth is fantastic, & I would keep as is. Maybe offer medallions or something for some classes if that’s what it takes for the younger kids. I would certainly be interested in sponsoring those. And if you are having a get together again in fall or winter maybe have a small silent auction with donated items….that should raise a little money
Maybe if you need a little noise, have an announcer there who can run the music at intermission, but also helps to boost the kids confidence when they hear their name called & their horses accomplishments etc. I’m just babbling, but trying to think of ideas. Like the reining shows, the Saddlebred shows also hoop & holler, so maybe by having an announcer, that will fill in the “silent” gap.
I love these shows, because they are a great way to get the green horse & riders started.
That’s all for now !
Sandy
Barbara C Rice — October 31, 2009 @ 8:48 pm
OK!!! Marci ..here goes.
The Ark shows have been fantastic for this area, and i would certainly go with freestyles at each show, spectators love them no matter what the level. Also demos would entertain, E G Quadrille , vaulting, reigning. jumping, at least one of the above at each show.
How about an:- are you and your horse ready for the next level????
The rider , rides a test at the nextlevel above the one they compete in.
The judge would score it as a regular test, then discuss with the rider the pros and cons of moving up.
There would be no placings and no ribbons, strictly a learning curve.
Post fliers every where, and have the local press out to take pics on show days.
Thats it for now, and you know i will always help, will keep making idea lists
mare — October 31, 2009 @ 9:02 pm
you guys have done a great job of putting together some great shows….a suggestion- keep up with the freestyles……..they not only are great for the horse/rider team BUT will get “outsiders” interested in our not just “watching grass grow” tests………..
Having “Fun Freestyles” will encourage people to try to put together one whereas they may NOT want to do a freestyle as they may think they are not good enough………….Getting someone or a couple of people/companies put up some $$ or prizes may encourage them….
Mare
dexters mom — October 31, 2009 @ 9:04 pm
But, here’s a few thought starters – not really fully baked, but they might serve as springboards to even better ideas….
at the grass roots level, most people don’t know what the heck they’re looking at…let’s educate them!
have an announcer at shows to tell spectators who and what they are watching
hand out “cheat” notes / flyer to spectators explaining dressage terminology, what to look for, scoring basics, Dressage 101…
give out scorecards to people who want to “score along with the judge” and test their knowledge
announce results more immediately so spectators “get” what is a 60% ride versus a 70% ride (think figure skating and gymnastics)
with rider’s permission, select a couple of tests during the day and mic the judge as she is scoring…LIVE
Fan’s Choice award (think So You Think You Can Dance)
ribbon presentation – I know… it’s not the done thing in dressage, and it will slow things down… but there’s some merit to crowd support. As a
hunter/jumper/equitation convert, I’ve always felt that getting my dressage results (especially if you win) left me with a feeling of “lunchbag letdown”. Someone
once said “It’s like wetting your pants in a dark suit…nobody knows” J
freestyle division at more than just 1 show; lather, rinse and repeat at multiple shows and improve your scores just like in technical tests
if/when we do get sponsors, ensure ThankYous are sent by winner. One series I know gives the winner a blank thankyou note which winner MUST
complete and give back to show desk before prizes/ribbons are given out
victory gallop – ok, modified for dressage J
Fan of the Day award – any reason will do
start a new tradition – like wearing a hat at the Derby ; give prize for best hat
is there anything in dressage like baseball’s 7th inning stretch, or polo’s stomping the divots…?? you know…interactive?
I’m just getting warmed up……
Ummmm, REALLY off the wall here…. would Dover consider visiting a grassroots show and making HIS suggestions??
bxrgurl — October 31, 2009 @ 9:06 pm
A costume class? Is it possible to do ‘dressage pairs’ similar to hunter pairs?
I’d love to see a bunch of dressage riders doing some pole bending or barrel racing!
cressiegirl — October 31, 2009 @ 9:08 pm
as posted on the EMG board… in responce to Marci’s question
The fun classes in jumperland are the ones like speed derbies, double slaloms and ride and drives. I’m guessing that having two riders mirror each other in a dressage test wouldn’t quite have the same effect! Maybe you could do a ride and drive-type class where they do their dressage test, then jump off and either jump in an RTV or whip off their saddle and run around a little obstacle course with it in a wheelbarrow. Extra points are added to the dressage score for the fastest “drive”! It’s a bit difficult to come up with ideas because most of the fun classes that I am familiar with involve speed or increased difficulty/length. Since dressage isn’t about speed, classes are already split into levels of difficulty and dressage tests are already plenty long, there’s not much left to work with to make it more crowd-pleasing…
Victoria Lee — November 1, 2009 @ 9:35 am
People: when you go to an art museum….does a curator force you to look at every painting….or do you pick and choose what you glance at…? Do you have a purposeful path you are on when you enter a museum or are you attracted to the general ambiance. Welcome to dressage!
We might attract more people to dressage shows by not forcing them to watch something that even the most discerning dressage person finds tedious after a time…instead we can create an atmosphere that frames the dressage - not forces dressage to be the entire focus. Get a local fashion show together, have a farmers market - along with neighbours selling, plants, veggies, garage sale trinkets….raise money for a local charity. Have a couple of local business that can help sponsor, pay for advertising and pitch their wares…good luck and have fun..but always always raise awareness for charitable drives…..since quite frankly dressage is more like a wedding cake…not the filling and the icing….dressage really just represents the figurines on top ….and should finish the look not make it….then you can have your cake and eat it too!
Victoria Lee — November 1, 2009 @ 9:43 am
This is something I have posted a couple of times with you before…but it seesms to be in the mind of others as well…. Are you filming these symposium moments…..or talent searches. If so is it possible to post on Youtube like a reality based Dressage TV show (oh my god…sound familiar). Or maybe we can make a deal with horse.com. Would we all not get so much out of the experience and the learning curves therein. Would the Canadian Team not have a chance of attracting more support (perhaps not just cheap sympathy but sponsorship potentials….YOU KNOW….lots of camera time/views for “Product” plugs).
I am so impressed and have been so positively effected by the Steffen Peters and Janet Brown videos (Eastern States Dressage and Combined Training Association’s 2007 Symposium for Judges, Trainers and Competitors). I personally think they are the best dressage training/info videos produced to date. We all need to be a part of this development…what better way to make us a part of it…..!
Once a week we tune into you and Canada on Youtube, or some other broadcast possibility and learn and grow…! We might even be lucky enouggh to create a blog site “fan-club” to vote and discuss what we have seen and post questions or ideas we might have. We could hire a couple of viedographers to foloow you around….you have heard all this before from me…don’t get me started again…
Sandra McGuire — November 1, 2009 @ 11:48 am
Marci,
Your school sounds like a great place to learn to love riding.
What about a trail class? I love trying them in the local, non-dressage shows with my horse, because it’s an application of the things we do everyday. Think leg-yeild to go around the cones. A good 20M circle? Put up a box and trot inside, or, put in 2 concentric circles with cones. Build the smaller circle 1M inside the larger, and trot, or canter, or walk, between the cones without bumping any cones. If you think halting at X is tricky, put a mailbox along the rail, halt, keep the horse still, open the mailbox, remove the letter, hand it to the person standing behind the fence, close the box, trot on. The real challenge is if you have a gate that you can open, make the riders open the gate, walk through, and close it behind them.
We had done a “look Mom, No Hands” class at our schooling show. You need sane horses for this one, but think of walking on a long rein. Everyone enters the class, drops the reins at the same time, and the announcer calls out the movements. Really tests your seat & legs. If you need the reins, you’re out. Think of beginning lunge line, without the line.
Carrot Race. You can hoot and holler for this one. Rider and horse race down to the end of the arena. Rider hops off, grabs a carrot (or other treat) from a container. Then, tries to get the horse to follow back. The rider does not mount, but runs, walks, trots, weaves, and/or begs the horse to follow. The stopwatch stops when the last of the pair crosses the line. You are DQ’d if the horse gets the treat before you both cross the line, or if you need to touch horse or tack to get to the line.
Totally off the wall, but do you have Donkey Basketball in Canada? Yes, it is what it sounds like. There are places that rent and transport donkeys to a gym. Players are assigned a donkey. You ride said donkey while trying to play the game of basketball. You can only shoot at the basket while mounted. All passes must involve at least 1 mounted rider. (there are unvoluntary dismounts). Donkeys do know seat cues. But, they don’t always listen to the reins (which are attached to the halter), and unlike dressage horses, they don’t always turn both directions. They do, however, canter. Freely. One of my clients is a local high school, and I became a temporary member of the staff when they heard I ride. It is great fun to watch and lots of money is raised for the school.
Marci Brown — November 1, 2009 @ 8:20 pm
Thanks for all the great ideas people… keep them coming. I have all winter to work on rev’ing up my dressage series. I agree with those that want to keep true to our sport, which I do. I just want to add a degree of fun ! So, your ideas are very inspiring !
I am going to print all of these comments off, and go through the list and see what is initially feasable ! I will report back to you all !
Thanks again !
See Robert !!!!! Look at all the excitement you can stir up in Canada !
eventing mom — November 1, 2009 @ 10:02 pm
I like all the ideas that I have read. Being a mom of an inspiring eventor I think the wow factor or excitment actor needs to be added. Dad loves to watch the jumping and cross country but dressage is quiet and boring in his opinion it is hard to even find people that clap then the dressage test is done these days. Cheering and hooting Would encourage and excite kids more, IMO. I also like the idea of the trail class, along the same idea as the Windrider challenge that has become popular to some. It shows true connection and trust of horse and rider as a whole, working as one, and if you and your horse are not truly a pair or team it is hard for them to work as needed in dressage for you. Demo’s of different diciplines, freestyles, quadrilles, hunter, jumper etc are great ideas as well. Fill the silent time with announcements, music, whatever is needed to keep interest up. Staggering the ride times of different levels might be a thing to try then the lower levels have a chance to see what they have to work towards…flyers, posters, radio announcements local newspapers etc to get the word out there. I have also went to a couple of the local fairs this year and didn’t see any true english classes, why not? Not the same level of excitment as barrels, pole bending is what I think…anyways enough for now…look forward to hearing more options and ideas
badaboom — November 2, 2009 @ 10:39 am
Marci–which shows do you do?
I should probably know but I’m drawing a blank.
badaboom — November 2, 2009 @ 10:45 am
Here is something I would really like to see:
The Group Equitation class!!!!
Equine Canada lists such a class for all levels of shows but nobody puts one on. When I was part of the organizing committee for our local club the reacction was almost funny.
‘IT’S DANGEROUS!’ some people said. All those horses together in the ring.
Really? Why do ‘dressage’ horses need to be put in bubble wrap and only shown individually? Are they different from say–Hunters, Polo Ponies, Western Pleasure Horses etc, etc?
Marci Brown — November 2, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
badaboom,
I DO already have equitation classes… yeah me ! But, I admit I am nervous about adding other more “challenging” classes. So far, in three seasons of beginner shows, no falls ( touch wood, ugh, now I am jinxed for sure, better have an ambulance on standby next show) and as an administrator, I love that record.
Maybe the falls, spooks and bolts are like the fights in hockey… that is what the crowd really wants to see… oh geez…. not sure if I am up to the challenge ! Can I just crawl back into my boring little dressage bubble now ?
badaboom — November 2, 2009 @ 1:46 pm
Consider the Prix Caprilli. I have copies of walk/trot or Training Level tests if you would like them.
For Walk/trot–the cavaletti was set to 12″, for Training 18″.
Marci Brown — November 2, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
YES ! I would love to include that !
marci@arkequestrian.com
Marci Brown — November 3, 2009 @ 4:29 pm
ohhh i like Badaboom’s idea!!! Then Hamburger and I can show
lol
Marci Brown — November 3, 2009 @ 8:27 pm
Um, excuse me…. as the professional DQ that I am… I would never own a horse named Hamburger….
That post above was made by Stephanie…. of course…. who rather then WORKING for me… was ON MY COMPUTER ! Ugh….why oh why do I bother….
Cathy — November 4, 2009 @ 3:25 pm
Okay, here is my controversial question or comment however you want to take it. How is it that Canada has managed to steal one of our great dressage riders for themselves?? How is it that we here in America can’t seem to keep our loyalties to our own country and the development of the sport? Is that controversial enough? I do believe that by Robert coaching the Canadians we have done a disservice to ourselves. Trust me, us American dressage folks need help, me included. It’s apparent at the schooling show level and up although I do believe that our economy prohibits many of us in partaking in clinics these days. I personally would like to see some great riders volunteering more time and clinics for the typical rider and not just the folks that have money to burn.
Oops, I think I might have gotten up on my soapbox there. Let me step back now and let the comments roll in.
Robert: Did I win my special gift??? Speaking of which, you offered one before for Ask Rhonda questions so I contributed and even got my question published….but alas, no gift.
john deppen — November 6, 2009 @ 10:52 am
I have to agree with Cathy with Canada getting one of our best assests. I have pondered posting a similar comment but everytime i started, I got a angry…. so I deleted it. I personally feel a dismissed by the “higher powers” in the dressage community. I do feel that persons in the lower levels and trainers (as myself)that are developing dressage riders/horses to move to the upper levels are going to suffer greatly. I can only hope this is not going to be a trend…..
Victoria Lee — November 7, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
Horsemanship or Sportsmanship where are they in Dressage?
What has happened to either one of them? Do they exist in our discipline? I was just prompted to read an article in the Chronicle that my good neighbor and a Terrific Horsewoman “Linda Allen.” Linda wrote regarding exclusivity within the Industry and how we are being negatively effected by it…..a definite read!
How can we survive as an Industry if we do not start to teach some of the morals and ethics that make for Sportsmanship and Horsemanship 1st. Like a lot of people including Linda, I have spent my life growing up with and around horses. What I know is that the Industry has become more intolerant to those without a great amount of capital to back them up and the ability for a person of talent to survive is no longer based on their hard work and dedication or raw skills…but how much money they can put up. What has happened to us?
Why is it that when you go to a horse show these days whether you are a competitor or a spectator…you feel lost like it is your first day at school…somewhat unwelcome even? Certainly almost always…..alone….apart…..different!
When did it become impossible to ride together, train together, learn together, show together….too many politics, too many differences…? Why is it we can take the time to have the patience to learn from our horses…no matter what their experience…but not each other? We are all in this together….we all need each other….why can we not start acting like a team?