Comments on: Time For Some Trouble http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/ The website of Robert Dover Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:26:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8-bleeding-edge hourly 1 By: Kay http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-5165 Kay Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:49:37 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-5165 Good article, Robert. I am concerned, as others have expressed, how this affects the FEI para-equestrian sport. Some older horses are much more suitable and if they need some help in their mature years, I think the FEI should consider it. Good article, Robert. I am concerned, as others have expressed, how this affects the FEI para-equestrian sport. Some older horses are much more suitable and if they need some help in their mature years, I think the FEI should consider it.

]]> By: Katie http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-5128 Katie Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:07:36 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-5128 Well said Robert! Thank you for your thoughtful point of view which is rooted in common sense. And to Theo and Phillip, also very true! Well said Robert! Thank you for your thoughtful point of view which is rooted in common sense. And to Theo and Phillip, also very true!

]]> By: Phillip http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4972 Phillip Thu, 03 Dec 2009 10:39:45 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4972 The difference between us using an ice pack on ourselves and using an icepack on our horses is that we know where we are sore, the horses can't tell us exactly where they are sore from exertion and I am yet to see one who takes the ice pack off me and applies it to itself where it needs to be because I have applied it in the wrong spot :-) I'd much prefer to see horses legally made a little more comfortable than illegally using some unknown substance that they aren't testing for yet! The difference between us using an ice pack on ourselves and using an icepack on our horses is that we know where we are sore, the horses can’t tell us exactly where they are sore from exertion and I am yet to see one who takes the ice pack off me and applies it to itself where it needs to be because I have applied it in the wrong spot :-)
I’d much prefer to see horses legally made a little more comfortable than illegally using some unknown substance that they aren’t testing for yet!

]]> By: Heather http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4962 Heather Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:35:50 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4962 The bute in my barn expires before I use it. However, I keep it around just like I keep Advil in my house for myself. Unlike racehorses (whom almost all get bute 24 hours prerace) dressage horses' careers are long. Anyone who has done a prepurchase exam for an aged horse knows that arthritic changes are inevitable. Are the people in the "anti" camp saying these horses should be retired? Daily exercise is usually the Rx for arthritic horses and a bit of bute on a cold rainy day isn't the end of the world. The bute in my barn expires before I use it. However, I keep it around just like I keep Advil in my house for myself. Unlike racehorses (whom almost all get bute 24 hours prerace) dressage horses’ careers are long. Anyone who has done a prepurchase exam for an aged horse knows that arthritic changes are inevitable. Are the people in the “anti” camp saying these horses should be retired? Daily exercise is usually the Rx for arthritic horses and a bit of bute on a cold rainy day isn’t the end of the world.

]]> By: Rebecca Pennington http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4943 Rebecca Pennington Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:11:43 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4943 Well said, Robert! Couldn't agree more. A zero tolerance approach is the equivalent to telling a human over age 40 that he cannot be allowed to compete (in tennis, running, golf - heck anything that requires muscle use) because to do so comfortably he'd take an aspirin beforehand for his mild arthritis. No one claims such would be harmful to the human. As long as there are properly set tolerance levels and dosage recommendations, bute and other NSAIDS should be permitted - not to mask injuries (which it wouldn't do in proper dosage) but to allow a horse to compete comfortably. Well said, Robert! Couldn’t agree more. A zero tolerance approach is the equivalent to telling a human over age 40 that he cannot be allowed to compete (in tennis, running, golf - heck anything that requires muscle use) because to do so comfortably he’d take an aspirin beforehand for his mild arthritis. No one claims such would be harmful to the human.

As long as there are properly set tolerance levels and dosage recommendations, bute and other NSAIDS should be permitted - not to mask injuries (which it wouldn’t do in proper dosage) but to allow a horse to compete comfortably.

]]> By: Carolyn Luther, dvm http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4941 Carolyn Luther, dvm Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:21:20 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4941 this dvm thinks if they do the research to accurately set blood tolerance levels that indeed allow the low dose but catch the higher dose, and if they publish accurate recommendations for dosing, then it will have been a good thing....it will be interesting to see when/if they allow other newer nsaids over time... this dvm thinks if they do the research to accurately set blood tolerance levels that indeed allow the low dose but catch the higher dose, and if they publish accurate recommendations for dosing, then it will have been a good thing….it will be interesting to see when/if they allow other newer nsaids over time…

]]> By: Micki http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4934 Micki Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:20:49 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4934 As a member of the medical field for 25 years, I'm raising my glass to ya, Robert. Thank you that someone of your level in this sport has some common sense. If you are against LOW level anti-inflammatory drugs then you just don't understand the pathophysiology of the body or the interaction of these drugs WITH it. No one is saying load um up on Morphine and Fentanyl and canter down the center line. Have you ever added an ice pack to an injured or exhausted group of muscles or even worse, a small, low tissue area like a leg or arm? It is extremely painful! I used to play highschool basketball, the first week of practice had us all walking gingerly, no one was expecting us to get through that without NSAIDS. My husband, a physician, runs ultra marathons, 30-50 MILES in 12 hours, if you came at him with an ice pack instead of A HANDFULL of Motrin, he would come after you with whatever little bit of strength he had left! To get you panties in a twist over this is just weird to me. Congratulations to the horses. Way to go Robert! As a member of the medical field for 25 years, I’m raising my glass to ya, Robert. Thank you that someone of your level in this sport has some common sense. If you are against LOW level anti-inflammatory drugs then you just don’t understand the pathophysiology of the body or the interaction of these drugs WITH it. No one is saying load um up on Morphine and Fentanyl and canter down the center line.
Have you ever added an ice pack to an injured or exhausted group of muscles or even worse, a small, low tissue area like a leg or arm? It is extremely painful! I used to play highschool basketball, the first week of practice had us all walking gingerly, no one was expecting us to get through that without NSAIDS. My husband, a physician, runs ultra marathons, 30-50 MILES in 12 hours, if you came at him with an ice pack instead of A HANDFULL of Motrin, he would come after you with whatever little bit of strength he had left! To get you panties in a twist over this is just weird to me. Congratulations to the horses. Way to go Robert!

]]> By: RDover2 http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4932 RDover2 Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:23:37 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4932 Hi Sandra. You might want to tell your friend that one 81 miligram pill oa aspirin a day could very well prevent heart attacks and other health problems as he gets older. Of course, zero tolerance for NSAIDS would preclude the possibility of profelactic use of low dose aspirin for this use as well. I spent 8 years on the Athletes Advisory Council of the U.S. Olympic Team, dealing with the top athletes from every sport in the Olympic and para-Olympic family. I will tell you that the legal and correct use of NSAIDS is and always will be a necessary part of sport. It has nothing to do with masking traumatic injuries, but especially older athletes know the value of reducing inflammation in our muscles after practice. I would be very happy to discuss it with your friend from Judo any time. Cheers! RD Hi Sandra.

You might want to tell your friend that one 81 miligram pill oa aspirin a day could very well prevent heart attacks and other health problems as he gets older.
Of course, zero tolerance for NSAIDS would preclude the possibility of profelactic use of low dose aspirin for this use as well.
I spent 8 years on the Athletes Advisory Council of the U.S. Olympic Team, dealing with the top athletes from every sport in the Olympic and para-Olympic family.
I will tell you that the legal and correct use of NSAIDS is and always will be a necessary part of sport. It has nothing to do with masking traumatic injuries, but especially older athletes know the value of reducing inflammation in our muscles after practice.
I would be very happy to discuss it with your friend from Judo any time.

Cheers!

RD

]]> By: Sandra McGuire http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4931 Sandra McGuire Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:07:50 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4931 Mary, I couldn't agree with you more. Nor could our barn owner, who's a former olympic qualifier in Judo and has many conversations on this vary subject anytime any horse in the barn is off. His background: National Champion in Poland. Yes, massage and ice packs and heat can and should be used after strenuous exercise to keep down inflammation. But, NASAIDs, both for human and athlete should not be used long term. If you're in pain on a daily basis for more than an hour or two after a workout (after you've rehydrated and moved the lactic acid out of your body), then you have an injury that needs to heal. Yes, when you move up a level in your activity, you will be sore for a week or two while your body adjusts and builds the strength and muscle necessary. But more than that, and you're doing damage. Jack's words are: When I competed, I wanted to feel the pain. It meant I either needed to strengthen a muscle or group, or I moved the wrong way and needed to work on flexibility. When you don't let your body tell you something's wrong, that's when you get hurt. And if one part of the body isn't strong enough, then another takes over. Sometimes you end up injuring the compensating part of the body from the additional strain. So while my horse gets bute annually when he has hock injections (lots of conversations with Jack on that one), and to keep down the hives for spring and fall shots, if he's sore and give him a day off. Then call the vet if it seems chronic. Anything else, and I'd need to answer to Jack. Even in his 60's, I know better than to argue with someone who can fall off a horse, bounce back up, and who used to toss people for sport. Mary,
I couldn’t agree with you more. Nor could our barn owner, who’s a former olympic qualifier in Judo and has many conversations on this vary subject anytime any horse in the barn is off. His background: National Champion in Poland.
Yes, massage and ice packs and heat can and should be used after strenuous exercise to keep down inflammation. But, NASAIDs, both for human and athlete should not be used long term. If you’re in pain on a daily basis for more than an hour or two after a workout (after you’ve rehydrated and moved the lactic acid out of your body), then you have an injury that needs to heal. Yes, when you move up a level in your activity, you will be sore for a week or two while your body adjusts and builds the strength and muscle necessary. But more than that, and you’re doing damage.
Jack’s words are: When I competed, I wanted to feel the pain. It meant I either needed to strengthen a muscle or group, or I moved the wrong way and needed to work on flexibility. When you don’t let your body tell you something’s wrong, that’s when you get hurt. And if one part of the body isn’t strong enough, then another takes over. Sometimes you end up injuring the compensating part of the body from the additional strain.
So while my horse gets bute annually when he has hock injections (lots of conversations with Jack on that one), and to keep down the hives for spring and fall shots, if he’s sore and give him a day off. Then call the vet if it seems chronic.
Anything else, and I’d need to answer to Jack. Even in his 60’s, I know better than to argue with someone who can fall off a horse, bounce back up, and who used to toss people for sport.

]]> By: john deppen http://doversworld.com/blog/2009/11/time-for-some-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-4921 john deppen Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:24:40 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-4921 here's another drama statemet - DRAW REINS....hmmm to do or not to do?? I personally feel that some cases call for them. Now what do u think here’s another drama statemet - DRAW REINS….hmmm to do or not to do??
I personally feel that some cases call for them. Now what do u think

]]>