Comments on: The Power Of Words http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/ The website of Robert Dover Fri, 18 May 2012 08:05:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8-bleeding-edge hourly 1 By: immobilier http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-159903 immobilier Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:12:57 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-159903 hey tout le monde j'aime bien cette facon de penser ce post mais l' immobilier est mon hobbie. hey tout le monde j’aime bien cette facon de penser ce post mais l’ immobilier est mon hobbie.

]]> By: Dominic Frutoz http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-52519 Dominic Frutoz Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:37:34 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-52519 I’ve been exploring for a bit for any high-quality articles or weblog posts in this kind of house . Exploring in Yahoo I ultimately stumbled upon this website. Reading this info So i’m satisfied to convey that I've a very excellent uncanny feeling I came upon just what I needed. I such a lot indisputably will make sure to do not overlook this web site and provides it a glance regularly. I’ve been exploring for a bit for any high-quality articles or weblog posts in this kind of house . Exploring in Yahoo I ultimately stumbled upon this website. Reading this info So i’m satisfied to convey that I’ve a very excellent uncanny feeling I came upon just what I needed. I such a lot indisputably will make sure to do not overlook this web site and provides it a glance regularly.

]]> By: Sandra McGuire http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6615 Sandra McGuire Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:58:05 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6615 Robert, you hit the nail on the head in your last response. The problem with defining abusive riding is that one body is trying to put into words something that your gut tells you is wrong when you see it. It's not the placement of the horse's head, or the use of aids that is the issue. It's the force that's used, the intent of the use of the aid (encourage, clarify an aid, or change what may be a dangerous behavior on the horse's part), and the reward given by the rider when the horse responds to the aid. Most of us have seen a horse buck or take off with a rider. Aids to correct are applied as quickly as possible, often with more force than in regular riding. But as soon as the horse stops their negative (and very forceful) behavior, the aids are softened and life goes on. And unfortunately, most of us have probably seen a horse whose walking around at a warm-up or cool down who turns his or her head or body to look at another horse or something interesting. The first response of the rider is to yank the horse's head and "wack" him or her forward. The horse usually has a "what was that for? I was just seeing if I knew them". Robert, you hit the nail on the head in your last response. The problem with defining abusive riding is that one body is trying to put into words something that your gut tells you is wrong when you see it. It’s not the placement of the horse’s head, or the use of aids that is the issue. It’s the force that’s used, the intent of the use of the aid (encourage, clarify an aid, or change what may be a dangerous behavior on the horse’s part), and the reward given by the rider when the horse responds to the aid.
Most of us have seen a horse buck or take off with a rider. Aids to correct are applied as quickly as possible, often with more force than in regular riding. But as soon as the horse stops their negative (and very forceful) behavior, the aids are softened and life goes on.
And unfortunately, most of us have probably seen a horse whose walking around at a warm-up or cool down who turns his or her head or body to look at another horse or something interesting. The first response of the rider is to yank the horse’s head and “wack” him or her forward. The horse usually has a “what was that for? I was just seeing if I knew them”.

]]> By: fran Goodsell http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6610 fran Goodsell Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:49:16 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6610 Hi Robert! I just wanted to clarify the difference between "deep" and hyperflextion. I think there is a huge difference, and obviously excessive use of the whip is not OK either. I think the stewards will have their work cut out for them when they confront the situation in the warm up ring. I just hope they are allowed to do their job. Fran Hi Robert! I just wanted to clarify the difference between “deep” and hyperflextion. I think there is a huge difference, and obviously excessive use of the whip is not OK either. I think the stewards will have their work cut out for them when they confront the situation in the warm up ring. I just hope they are allowed to do their job.
Fran

]]> By: RDover2 http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6602 RDover2 Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:07 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6602 Fran, were you against Uphoff, Werth, and all of Schulten-Baumer's training as well, because these people and many more including myself were riding our horses very deep at times during our practice. I remember Margit riding Corlandus extremely deep by anyone's standards in order to bring his back up and hind legs to an optimum engagement. And I don't remember any call to arms against this practice back then, even when it was done using the leverage of draw-reins, which I have never been a proponent of. This is why, again and again, I say to you and everyone else - it is not about where the head and neck is placed; rather it is about whether the animal is put there using painful measures which are obvious to the trained eye, just as forcing piafee and passage through constant use of the whip or anything else which produces "undue pain or bewilderment" to a horse should not be allowed. Talk of new or old classical is not productive. Finding a way to clarify what is or is not legal at shows so that all stewards can efficiently do their jobs is. RD Fran, were you against Uphoff, Werth, and all of Schulten-Baumer’s training as well, because these people and many more including myself were riding our horses very deep at times during our practice. I remember Margit riding Corlandus extremely deep by anyone’s standards in order to bring his back up and hind legs to an optimum engagement. And I don’t remember any call to arms against this practice back then, even when it was done using the leverage of draw-reins, which I have never been a proponent of.
This is why, again and again, I say to you and everyone else - it is not about where the head and neck is placed; rather it is about whether the animal is put there using painful measures which are obvious to the trained eye, just as forcing piafee and passage through constant use of the whip or anything else which produces “undue pain or bewilderment” to a horse should not be allowed.
Talk of new or old classical is not productive. Finding a way to clarify what is or is not legal at shows so that all stewards can efficiently do their jobs is.

RD

]]> By: fran Goodsell http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6600 fran Goodsell Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:22:32 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6600 Really Robert?? you think what Lita said is brilliant? this rolkur topic on this website "bewilders" me because it has nothing to do with your training methods at all. From my experience watching you, you believe in deep and stretching. let's not confuse that with rolkur!! I am not a finatic, but am a very good friend of Gerd Heuschman. and understand his passion against this way of training. I respect you as always Robert, but you have to defend "classical" and not the "new classical" as defined by Sjef Jannsen.(I think he coined that term in 2004). I don't know why you would even go there with this audience. true Blue! Fran Really Robert?? you think what Lita said is brilliant?
this rolkur topic on this website “bewilders” me because it has nothing to do with your training methods at all. From my experience watching you, you believe in deep and stretching. let’s not confuse that with rolkur!! I am not a finatic, but am a very good friend of Gerd Heuschman.
and understand his passion against this way of training.
I respect you as always Robert, but you have to defend “classical”
and not the “new classical” as defined by Sjef Jannsen.(I think he coined that term in 2004). I don’t know why you would even go there with this
audience.
true Blue!
Fran

]]> By: RDover2 http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6598 RDover2 Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:22:16 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6598 Lita, I could not have said it better myself! Brilliant! RD Lita, I could not have said it better myself! Brilliant!

RD

]]> By: Victoria Lee http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6597 Victoria Lee Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:59:36 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6597 O.K. well here it goes….so long as I am not doing something bad in anybody’s cereal…O.K. Where I got stuck and a question mark rose up between my ears was in reading your description from your blog “The Power of Words” ”How are the Stewards going to be trained to discern the difference between “aggressive force” to make a horse go deep from “non aggressive “ means to a similar frame? And for anybody out there in blogland that might be reading…I am not placing a magnifying glass on Mr. Dover’s words…or spelling and punctuation for that matter…..the articulation is actually the same Industry wide right down from the FEI…. My Question (or concern) Is this really where a lot of attention will be focused? Is it possible that rollkur or let’s call it “aggressive force” is even possible when a rider is bringing a horse together into a deep and round frame? Are we NOT addressing more extreme maneuvers that have raised hackles everywhere … I guess to include the possibility of one possibly being a byproduct or potential while engaging in the other has me fearing that the net will cast out further against the Dressage community and that Deep and round will become a part of the “aggressive force” issue. Soooo….in my very poor attempt at looking for your clarification or opinion about this…….I got into a diatribe of my own personal opinions on what I think the differences are….sorry! Help me…..Uncle Robert….. p.s. it’s too warm for a leather jacket here right now….is it any warmer yet where you are? There is a reason why Mexico gave up California and Florida LOL Victoria P.S. Lita......jump in any time please....Thank you I find great wisdom and logic in your words. I guess I am worried about the line becoming fuzzy and the practice of hyperflexion that we have evolved into and something that I covet but not more than my horses...potentially becoming the next victom through this issue of rollkur through association alone. Although I feel they are completely unrelated to one another.... as you so aptly stated..."bad riding might try to simulate similar action". But when these two actions get put into the same sentence I see bad things on the horizon (at least I am not seeing dead people all the time)! O.K. well here it goes….so long as I am not doing something bad in anybody’s cereal…O.K.

Where I got stuck and a question mark rose up between my ears was in reading your description from your blog “The Power of Words” ”How are the Stewards going to be trained to discern the difference between “aggressive force” to make a horse go deep from “non aggressive “ means to a similar frame? And for anybody out there in blogland that might be reading…I am not placing a magnifying glass on Mr. Dover’s words…or spelling and punctuation for that matter…..the articulation is actually the same Industry wide right down from the FEI….
My Question (or concern)
Is this really where a lot of attention will be focused? Is it possible that rollkur or let’s call it “aggressive force” is even possible when a rider is bringing a horse together into a deep and round frame? Are we NOT addressing more extreme maneuvers that have raised hackles everywhere …
I guess to include the possibility of one possibly being a byproduct or potential while engaging in the other has me fearing that the net will cast out further against the Dressage community and that Deep and round will become a part of the “aggressive force” issue. Soooo….in my very poor attempt at looking for your clarification or opinion about this…….I got into a diatribe of my own personal opinions on what I think the differences are….sorry! Help me…..Uncle Robert…..
p.s. it’s too warm for a leather jacket here right now….is it any warmer yet where you are? There is a reason why Mexico gave up California and Florida LOL
Victoria
P.S. Lita……jump in any time please….Thank you I find great wisdom and logic in your words. I guess I am worried about the line becoming fuzzy and the practice of hyperflexion that we have evolved into and something that I covet but not more than my horses…potentially becoming the next victom through this issue of rollkur through association alone. Although I feel they are completely unrelated to one another…. as you so aptly stated…”bad riding might try to simulate similar action”. But when these two actions get put into the same sentence I see bad things on the horizon (at least I am not seeing dead people all the time)!

]]> By: michelle http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6595 michelle Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:44:47 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6595 Mary maybe he just needs to pee:) Like a little kid will do..:) Mary maybe he just needs to pee:) Like a little kid will do..:)

]]> By: mary http://doversworld.com/blog/2010/02/20/the-power-of-words/comment-page-1/#comment-6594 mary Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:15:59 +0000 http://doversworld.com/blog/?p=2307#comment-6594 michelle, my young horse will piaffe at the gate of his turn out when he wants to come in and be ridden. :) michelle, my young horse will piaffe at the gate of his turn out when he wants to come in and be ridden. :)

]]>