My Letter To Astrid
The other day, before hearing that Anky had dropped the lawsuit against Astrid Appels, I sent Astrid the following letter. I am a very staunch supporter of Freedom of Speech but I also hoped by my letter to set the record straight on the subject of Rollkur ( a term I have greatly disliked from the moment I heard it) as it pertains to Anky. I am very happy that the suit is over but still feel that a kinder, gentler use of “words” would definitely be more appropriate. I wish Astrid as well as Anky and Sjef all the very best!
Hi Astrid.
I want to totally defend your right to free speech and am with you on this. Sjef has no right to attack you in that way.
But I do want to remind you that way before Anky was making her horses deep, many top riders and trainers such as Nicole Uphoff (1987), Isabel Werth (1990) and also I with Federleicht (1986-88) were doing so without any complaints. Please do not attribute Sjef and Anky to starting this as a method because it has truly always been a part of training to make horses deep sometime. This doesn’t ever mean using aggressive and painful measure to do so though and I am very sorry but from all the years I was in the barn with Anky, I NEVER saw her mean or unfair to any horse she rode, including my own horses, Everest and Rainier. I, therefore, feel a need to defend you both as well as the sport from those who get on this “Anti-Rollkur” bandwagon and begin to attack anyone who makes their horse behind the vertical, whether in a stretch or not.
I hope the whole thing just goes away for you and Anky/Sjef and I would strongly suggest getting together to talk it out with a mediator to take all the emotions out of the situation and resolve any disputes. We ALL love our horses and the sport and these petitions do nothing to help anything in the end, in my opinion.
I wish you all the best, always!
RD
RDover2 — September 7, 2010 @ 7:12 am
Dear Robert,
thank you for your letter and reaction.
May I remind you that nowhere did I state or write that Anky and Sjef are the “inventors” of this training system. I am very
well aware that this training method is much older (Francois Baucher) and has been used in the past by many riders from
different nationalities and in different disciplines, including Germans.
Anky, however, is the rider who booked the biggest international successes with this training method. She is the triple
Olympic champion through this system and is also a professional rider ( so she knows what she does in contrasts to the
thousand amateur copycats who don’t have a clue). Anky openly talks about rollkur/hyperflexion/LDR (whatever you like to
call it) and demonstrates the method all over the world in her highly popular clinics. She is the one who made the method
“famous”. I don’t “attribute the invention” to her, but she has made it popular and should not be offended when we post
photos of her schooling her horses in their daily training at competitions which are public events.
Furthermore I have NEVER EVER written that Anky rides in an aggressive way, so please do point out the article amongst the
6,000 published on Eurodressage in which I say she’s aggressive to her horses.
The method remains to be controversial, which shows in the FEI’s inability to clearly define it ( what is aggression, what
amount of force makes it aggressive???). The THOUSAND of reactions that rollkur continue to generate makes it a news-
worthy item on which journalists should report.
Please tell me in which article I’m jumping on the bandwagon of the anti-rollkur fanatics. If a horse has an open mouth, a
blue tongue, a stressed body, or whatever in the competition ring at a show (due to whatever system the horse is trained in;
classical or rollkur) we’ll write about it. Eurodressage is against bad riding, no matter in what system.
I’m sure all the top riders love their horses and they are treating them with much more meticulous care than many other
horse owners in the world (the worst pieces of abuse I’ve seen at small low level regional shows where fathers kicks ponies
in the stomach to make them go on trailers, for instance).
HOWEVER if an official team trainer makes intimidation and threat his modus operandi to address the media, he’ll have to
live with the consequences.
Kindest regards and with the greatest respect for your opinion,
Astrid Appels
RDover2 — September 7, 2010 @ 7:13 am
Hi Astrid.
Again, I agree in principle with you but here is the problem. It is one of “WORDS”. Now, I must also say that it would be a good thing if you had an English or American editor to go through your major editorials to help you with spelling, grammar and some choice of wording. The reason I say this is that there are very big differences in saying that Anky has gone around the world and in clinics shown people how riding their horses sometimes deep and low can be of help in their training, versus saying that she made Rollkur ( defined now as the use of aggression to put a horse in a hyper-flexed frame) famous. By using the word “Rollkur” with Anky, you are inferring that this is her method of choice and therefore it is one of aggression, something which I tell you again that Anky is not a proponent of. Horses love Anky and she them and this is why she has been such a huge success! Of that I am positive.
My comment about the Anti-Rollkur bandwagon is in regard to a petition which tend to just fuel the flame of fanaticism and is not generally helpful to our sport or the art we love.
In the end, it’s only about the choice of “words” which can have varying impacts on your readers and for which all of us who write daily must take responsibility.
Fondly,
Robert
karen — September 7, 2010 @ 9:54 am
Hear, HEAR ROBERT!! Once again, very well-spoken by you! As a reader, I Thank You!
TheovanBruggen — September 7, 2010 @ 11:42 am
Dear Robert,
There are times you have to put down your tophat and change it for a helmet. If you had the knowledge and documents about the case Anky versus Appels which I have, you would understand that trying to get these parties around the same table is asking for the absolute impossible. The way the Appels gang and her lawyers have handeled this case is absurd and ridiculous. Even in her latest press release Astrid hadn’t the decency to tell the reason why Anky withdraw this case.
The reason was that Anky stated that she never could have forseen that the AA gang would start such a mud throwing case about this. She also stated that she toke this decission for the benefit of the dressagesport and the privacy and wellbeing of her friends and family.
After the WEG, which will hopefully turn out for you and your wonderfull Canadian team the way you dreamed, I will send you some of the hatemails which were spread around Cyberspace by this gang.
Let’s hope that Mary Phelps once will come to the conclussion that she has put her money on the wrong horse.
Ciao
Theo
fran Goodsell — September 7, 2010 @ 12:58 pm
In my opinion, Astrid has never made false statements on her website. She is a true journalist and gets her stories first hand, or does her research and has access to other sources. I LOVE Eurodressage and I call it my “Bible” for dressage info. Astrid is really brilliant, and highly educated. Everyone that I know personally is hooked on her website and when you actually meet her you will know why (not directed to you Robert).
Astrid is not the only one that reports on Rollkur. The two largest mag. publications in Germany–St.Georg and Reiter Revue, report on it monthly for the past four years. Astrid is just bringing it up for the English readers to keep them in the loop for what is going on in Europe which people seem to be interested in. Believe me! Astrid is not the first Anky and Sjef have gone after. And face it! Sjef is known world wide for being rude and out of line. I’d like to see how any of us would react when being attacked from a guy like that!
I love Astrid, I love Eurodressage and am grateful for being kept in the loop. It’s the best website for our sport! and your Blog is the best in our sport Robert!
Fran
Michelle — September 7, 2010 @ 5:44 pm
Robert I have to disagree this one time;) We’re on the same page of politics but what Anky and many others do is not deep and low. I’d say a mouth planted on the chest between the legs is not deep and low. I don’t have a dog is this fight other then I don’t think it is mentally good for a horse to be ridden like that for long period of time.
Michelle — September 7, 2010 @ 5:52 pm
Seriously Theo, someone is going to sue you and they didn’t expect her to fight back. Hey it was Sjef sending the seriously unprofessional threatening emails. You actually believe that excuse? I have to agree with Astrid in that she should not being teaching that method in clinics I have seen horses ruined and become neurotic with this method. If you aren’t Anky or a top pro it’s not a method for 99% of the people. IMO
marie meyers — September 7, 2010 @ 7:23 pm
Now Anky is to be responsible for people copy her, Really Now Fei Riders r not supposed to give 1 bute not bend our horses, but make them trot with their feet 20 feet of the ground get a grip times have changed and the best horses in world are exceptional movers and hot in their temperment. All the talk of the rollkur no one thinks that not giving a gram of an anti-inflamentory for a top athelet is cruel. I think soon we we will all be joing Anky and try western riding.
What a nice thank you to a woman who has changed are sport with her wonderful rides. I’m with you on this one Robert as ususal thanks for be outspoken and talking the heat
Robert Dover — September 7, 2010 @ 8:29 pm
Oh, Michelle. Now you’ve got me going.
Listen to me, People, as I am going to say this one more time. And this goes for you too, my good friend, Fran. Anky’s horses LOVE HER! She has more feeling in her little finger than most will ever even imagine dreGming of having. For this reason, she has been able to not once, not twice, but three times win Individual Olympic Gold medals, plus World Championship multiple Golds plus NINE World Cups! Do you all think that all of these accolades on so many horses through undoubtedly the most successful career in the history of Dressage Sport happened because of aggressive behavior by their rider? Or luck?
I will say again to all of you that I have spent a very good portion of the last two decades with Anky and Sjef. Sjef can be abrupt, difficult and even a brat sometimes but he loves Anky and he loves his animals. Despite a gruff exterior, he is also one of the most generous people in the business and at least he says what he believes and doesn’t hold back his feelings. That is a sidebar but the real issue is Anky and I can say categorically that I believe her to be nothing short of a genius on a horse! Her horses come out daily and perform with enthusiasm, whether they are put deep in the warm-up or into the perfect show frame which is also a part of every daily ride as well as in the show ring.
So while I once again defend Astrid’s right to say or write as she pleases and I like her very much as a person too, I just have to try to remind people around the world who they are trashing- a GREAT Trainer, Rider, Showman, and Sportsman and a wonderful Mom, Wife, Friend, and Person! That is who so many of you are speaking poorly of and it is just not right. Not at all!
RD
Michelle — September 7, 2010 @ 9:19 pm
Robert I can show you some of the most successful riders in western, jumpers, saddle seat etc etc that have won medals but that does not mean their style or method of riding is good for the horse(this also goes for dressage). All I said is her method is for her and her level of riding not for 99% of the people and she should not be teaching it in her general clinics..IMO.. I understand you want to defend the type of training you were trained under. I also appreciate you think she is a great trainer, rider, showman, sportsman etc etc and you are entitled to that opinion as are the people that think her method of training is cruel/wrong blah blah. I have never been around Anky to see her training methods but I have been around people in the U.S. and I’m not a fan of it but like I said at her level it might be ok?
Michelle — September 7, 2010 @ 9:24 pm
Robert please read my two previous post exactly how did I get you going??
Michelle — September 7, 2010 @ 9:42 pm
Robert did you write a public letter to the editor of Dressage Today when she wrote an editorial called Take a Stand for the Welfare of the Horse…Written about Patrik Kittel and hyperflexion???
Robert Dover — September 7, 2010 @ 9:50 pm
Hi Michelle. Not a bad thing that you got me going, thus the smiley fave. Just trying to make those who do not have the intimate knowledge of Anky and her daily training that I do, understand how wrong they are to accuse her of being cruel or abusive. It just isn’t true and I know how hurtful it is to have to read such unkind things written by those who do not know the truth. I just wish people would consider this when they write about Anky and others. They have families who have to read this “stuff” too. I always ask our community to try harder to find more generosity of spirit and be more kind to each other, remembering that we all get up every day trying to do the best we can in life, with and without horses.
Cheers!
RD
lita dove — September 7, 2010 @ 10:03 pm
It is somewhat incredible that people who have NEVER SEEN ANKY TRAIN make blanket statements such as “her method of training is cruel/wrong…” and yet almost to a person, people who have seen Anky train admire, applaud and generally try to utilize what they have seen.
Why does anyone think that is?
Is it because the top sport riders all want to dominate their horses and be cruel?
Is it because if she wins with her process, then the other riders feel that they better use it too?
No.
It is because in the eye of the beholder, Anky dances with her horses.
The common fantasy all riders must share is the dream of partnership, the dream of special communication with the alien being.
That is what sets Totilas and Edward Gal apart–not the horse’s movement, but the incredible partnership between the two athletes.
And Anky is one of the seminal figures in our sport– as Robert noted– that has helped to change the public’s interest and perception of the sport. I do not know one person who was unmoved the first time they heard “Song Sung Blue” on the loudspeakers and Bonnie and Anky danced their way into the arena. Without “Song Sung Blue”, we would never have Ed and Toto.
Anky’s partnership with Bonfire was forged over time and with many steps backward–as ALL such partnerships are forged.
Now we have the internet and cell phones and chat boards and secret agendas. Every step seems to be documented–whether steps forward or steps back. But so many seem to delight in revealing the steps backward, no matter how such steps came about or what the circumstances.
So there is a lot of visible evidence that Salinero was not an easy horse when Anky got him. Visible evidence missing from the insider talk about great horses through the ages: Granat was a bugger-and-a-half, and many a ride ended with Christine Stuckelberger in tears, several times thinking about kicking him in frustration after he dumped her/left the arena with her still on board.
I still have a great photo of Ahlerich leaving the arena with the good Dr. aboard.
But no one seems to think Stuckelberger or Klimke were mean to their horses. Cruel. Dominating. blah blah blah.
Hello? Horses are half-wild creatures. The process of getting them to focus on us while we attempt to work out communication is not unlike that of Annie Sullivan and Helen Keller, who was absolutely wild as a child, cut off from the world through deafness and blindness.
THAT is what it is to train horses. And Anky is one of the great communicators in the world of the deaf and dumb equine, teaching them to hear and speak and see what we riders need our horses to be able to do.
AS for this lawsuit against eurodressage, to me it is all really quite clear:
It was a statement that in no way will Sjef and Anky allow a photo of Anky on a horse to be used as an illustration of the practice known as rollkur, which has been declared non grata by the FEI.
St. Georg tried that before the last WEG, and there was a lawsuit afterwards as a result. Which Sjef and Anky won.
This time, it just made sense to clear the air before WEG and not wait around to see what developed.
Why was the lawsuit dropped? I have no inside information, but common sense tells me that Sjef has to prepare a WEG team and ANky has to prepare to ride on a WEG team.
Preparation for top sport of any kind does not leave time for lawsuits, depositions, etc etc.
There is only time to work on the dance.
RDover2 — September 7, 2010 @ 11:07 pm
I LOVE LITA! She writes great and makes so much sense. If DoversWorld keeps growing, boy would I love to have her work for me!
Cheers!
RD
Richard — September 7, 2010 @ 11:22 pm
Robert,
I wish you could express your opinion without being so critical in response. I thought that Astrid did an excellent job of responding to you in a very professional way. She stated her point and even expressed appreciation for your opinion. Please show the same consideration for her. In other words, please express your opinion without complaining about her grammar and english. That is unnecessary.
Richard
fran Goodsell — September 8, 2010 @ 1:29 am
I thought that the issue was Astrid and not Anky! I really don’t care about Anky’s methods and would never try to ride like her. I have other riders that I would like to ride like. I understand defending your friends, but let’s face it Sjef (NOT ANKY) is more than just a brat! If he ever wrote things like he did to Astrid, you would have it published all over this blog, and rightfully so. He has a disgusting mouth that get’s him in trouble, And Astrid doesn’t take that sh– from anybody. like you, she writes what SHE wants on HER website. And that will never change. And again! Until the lawsuit, I don’t recall Astrid ever attacking Anky and Sjef on her site. She took her info from FEI meetings, and other sources. but never personal as I can recall.
Although she should be able to post her personal views as well.
Fran
Michelle — September 8, 2010 @ 5:00 am
Amen Fran and dare I say Richard:)
Michelle — September 8, 2010 @ 5:07 am
Robert are you going to answer my question about Dressage today and Astrid’s many about showing? I know this is your blog and you can do what you want but truth goes a long way.
Richard — September 8, 2010 @ 6:13 am
Thank you Michelle. I will take back whatever I said about you before
Michelle — September 8, 2010 @ 6:34 am
OOPS..Robert are you going to answer Astrid’s questions?
Robert Dover — September 8, 2010 @ 6:53 am
I’m so excited! I actually got Richard and Michelle to make up on the world-wide web. :). And FYI, fran, I can guarantee you that you and millions of others will never have to worry about “riding like Anky”.
Cheers!
RD
kim — September 8, 2010 @ 7:14 am
The debate surrounding “rollkur” has been blown way out of proportion. Realistically, if a horse is ridden for 2 hours each day, 7 days a week how long would it realistically be asked to perform in the debated frame? I suspect that many who vehemently oppose this method are quite content to deny their horses pasture time. I’m confident that the horses are more “unhappy” being denied freedom, than being asked to bend their necks–in much the manner they do of their own volition when biting at a fly.
I think Anky has proven that the method, as used by her, produces results. She has produced multiple horses to the highest level in this manner. She is also able to keep her horses sound and fit for lengthy careers. This, to me, is further evidence that she is just what Robert says–a genius on a horse who truly loves her horses.
Because there may be examples of people who misuse this practice in an abusive way does not reflect on Anky. Let’s be sure to make a distinction between the method and its implementation. Almost anything can be used in an abusive way, but it is the person not the method that commits the transgression.
I think the effort that has gone into this debate would be better spent trying to understand exactly how Anky is able to apply these methods so effectively, rather than vilify her. I for one am glad she has had the fortitude to continue competing and giving clinics in light of all the attacks. She seems to be a gracious individual and a terrific ambassador for the sport of dressage.
Robert Dover — September 8, 2010 @ 7:17 am
Hi Michelle.
If you read carefully, you will note that Astrid wrote two messages to me; one before she read my reply and the other after, which clearly showed she had read and appreciated what I had to say to her. Without you all knowing, we had been in touch by private e-mail as well during that time and remain good friends, in case anyone (like Richard) is worried about that. My real point here is that, for all of us (Richard included), words can hurt. And so I and all of us should try harder to remember that when we are writing about each other or a legend like Anky. RoLlkur, Hyperflexion, or Low-Deep-Round (whatever they are all defined as) have been around for ions and in the end, it is more about the intent of the rider and whether or not the animal is in pain or bewilderment versus confident and content that matters most, regardless of the frame it is in.
Cheers!
RD
michelle — September 8, 2010 @ 8:03 am
Robert I like you but you are a little passive aggressive:) And you should be excited about Richard and I because as you know the next political thread you and I most likely will be on the same team and we will be calling Richard boring:) Just kidding Richard.
michelle — September 8, 2010 @ 8:05 am
Kim completely agree with you on the pasture issue.
michelle — September 8, 2010 @ 8:09 am
I must be blind I don’t see where Astrid wrote two replys on here??
fran Goodsell — September 8, 2010 @ 12:28 pm
just to be clear! I have no problem with Anky’s training methods, i mean really! who the hell am I right? I do actually have a life!! but again, I thought this was about Astrid. Sjef did represent this system of LDR in Dressage Forums and has called it the “New Classical” system. Did he not? Just because Anky is “Anky” does not give her immunity to public opinion. I think everyone has great respect for her and her amazing career, but thinkig people question things. that is freedom to think, and when we verbalize, it becomes freedom of speech.
Like every other rider, Anky displays her technique in the warm up, and doesn’t care who is watching. I’ve seen it many times. I think she’s worn a tough skin for a long time and can definatly handle the criticism.
I think to have a thread like this we should leave her name out and just discuss the method, NOT invented by Anky.
As for the original topic Astrid vs. Anky–prior to the lawsuit, Astrid was just doing journalism at it’s best. After the MANY insults and remarks coming at her from Sjef (not Anky). she defended herself and published it. It’s her right……….Period
Fran-
TheovanBruggen — September 8, 2010 @ 6:13 pm
Maybe Lita Dove and I are the only ones who saw the hatemails from the Astrid Appels camp in full detail. So don’t start bashing Sjef or Anky. Astrid Appels has turned a very simple courtcase into a mud slinging party from the highest level.
Michelle — September 8, 2010 @ 8:09 pm
Well Astrid can’t control her “camp” and she didn’t write them.. Can’t say the same for Sjef. You crack me
up a simple court case..Theo when you sue someone you better expect them to fight and fight hard. Exactly what did you expect? They went after her and her livelihood, good for her for taking off the gloves!!! Maybe it’s American thing but you sue someone over here you’d better be prepared for a battle.
katja — September 9, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
As a admirer of both Anky and Astrid I really appreciate your words Robert, very wise indeed. Thanks for all the effort you put into writing your thoughts up, you must have put quite some time and effort into it!
Hopefully this storm will blow over now, and we can all start to gear up for something way more exciting than this; the WEG!
Good luck to Canada !!(from a dutch born, currently living in Sweden who spend a year in highschool in Canada;-))
TheovanBruggen — September 10, 2010 @ 9:20 am
@ Michelle
It’s obvious that you are missing the point. BUT just continue with your daily program.
Just swallow the things Astrid put on your plate, without any knowledge were the food came from and how it was prepared.
michelle — September 10, 2010 @ 10:31 am
Theo I’m now swallowing anything;) Anky sued Astrid, Astrid has nasty emails(never smart to do)from Sjef Anky dropped the law suit. Now If Astrid pulled out all the guns to defend herself well I say DUH. I’m still waiting for Robert to answer my questions but apparently they arne’t going to be answered.
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